Interviewer: Mariham Magdy
“We would not be able to learn if we didn’t identify our own biases and understand their impact on the different situations that we face in life…”
Dr. Alaa Awad
Associate Expert & Consultant at Talent Bay
Job Psychological Engineering is a pragmatic proposal by Dr. Alaa Awad, Egyptian Physician and HR Expert, who is the first to introduce the concept on LinkedIn in 2017 after more than 21 years of applied-psychology practice.
Dr. Alaa Awad masters a handful of profiling tools, namely MBTI, Keirsey Intelligence Types, DiSC Classifications (Certified International Trainer), Psychodynamic Personality Portraits, and applications of NLP.
He has been a Business Psychology Scholar since 1992, Management Researcher since 1995, HR & Organizational Learning Consultant since 1997, Business Lecturer & Corporate Trainer since 2000, Career Counselor & Coach since 2004, HR & OD Director since 2007, and Author of 5 scientific publications in Crisis Management & Organizational Learning.
With his triple background in Management, Psychology & Medicine, Dr. Alaa assists and trains Business & HR professionals not only to proficiently select the adequate profiles to perfectly integrate to both position & organization efficiency; but also he assists them to understand themselves & their deep personality traits, thus understanding points of strengths & best career paths to select to be appropriate to their personality.
HR Revolution Middle East: Dr. Alaa it is really a great honor for me to interview your good-self. Thanks a lot for accepting my invitation & for enriching the HR community with your valuable studies & knowledge. Based on your extensive studies & practical experience; to what extent do organizations in Egypt have the appropriate awareness about “Job Psychological Engineering”?
Dr. Alaa Awad: Thanks to HR Revolution for this opportunity that I do appreciate, an opportunity to introduce Job Psychological Engineering® as an HR Technology; it’s a tool for job psychological requirements identification as well as team design, a complex tool that matches the complexity of the workplace. I would like also to thank the team of Talent Bay, an HR Consulting House that went global since its incorporation and gives me the ideal professional environment for the development of my pragmatic project.
Few organizations in Egypt use personality assessment for selection, and usually the tool of assessment is based on a single personality theory, and hence the shortcomings of such tools. But the pragmatic nature of the Job Psychological Engineering model allows the integration of many major personality theories in order to apprehend all the relevant psychological dimensions related to the job content and the job context at the same time.
The awareness about Job Psychological Engineering (JPE) is not yet established, and the first time I introduced this concept on LinkedIn in September 2017 I didn’t find the same term “Job Psychological Engineering” all over the internet. The uniqueness of the model is not only about its label but also about its eclectic content. Both scientists and vendors are necessarily referring to a single psychology school of thought. For instance, a Freudian scholar ought not to accept Jungian assumptions about human nature, and vice versa. Likewise a vendor promoting the DiSC Classification as a tool for personality assessment usually perceives the MBTI vendor as a competitor, and actually the DiSC promotion is based on a criticism of the MBTI. But out of pragmatism, the JPE model integrates different psychology schools of thought as they complement each other, and hence includes several concepts and tools, namely MBTI, Socionics, Keirsey Personology, DiSC Classification, the American Psychiatric Association’s Personality Classification, NLP Representational Systems, the Big Five Personality Traits, as well as the Cognitive Abilities related to the Intelligence Quotient.
HR Revolution Middle East: As a seasoned Human Capital Expert with an extensive experience throughout the Middle-East; how many organizations started actually to apply the “Job Psychological Engineering” concept in their hiring decisions, aiming to achieve the business goals & maintain a positive work environment? What success stories have you witnessed and can share with us in this regard?
Dr. Alaa Awad: In my capacity as Director of HR & Institutional Development, HR & Organizational Learning Consultant, Action-Trainer, or Research Worker, I dealt with more than 30 organizations in different stages of my JPE model development since 1997. And during these two decades, I spent six years in Canada. The most successful story of JPE application on an organizational level was that of an Egyptian Company in a manufacturing sector; during the period of my intervention as an HR Consultant for more than 7 years, this Company acquired a European Plant working in the same field and went international. The key success factor behind the implementation of JPE principles and the remarkable business development achievement was the psychological awareness of the Top Management; it was like a co-learning journey where we were using the same jargon, and the use of psychological tools became a part of the organizational culture. I remember the case of an important employee in this Company who changed his position according to a Job-Personality Matching and became so motivated afterwards; I told the business owner that I was so happy for this employee, so the owner responded: “Alaa! I am happy for the business!” It’s such awareness of the importance of Human Capital for the development of the business that would make the whole difference, it is also the conviction that there is no Human Development or Performance Management without Psychology.
On a single job level the most successful story was that of the psychological design of the profile of the right candidate for a technical position reporting to a chief executive level in an important institution, and the incumbent was recruited and selected accordingly out of 200 job applicants among them 11 were preselected and interviewed. The harmony between the selected candidate and his manager who is one of the most demanding business leaders I have ever met was remarkable and their collaboration continues since then with all the expected learning, development, and promotion for almost a decade so far. Such case shows that the problem is not about difficult personalities, if any, it is about bad matching; actually job psychological engineering ensures good matching between coworkers and between managers and their subordinates.
HR Revolution Middle East: How much do you think it might cost an Organization to lose as a result of not including psychometric assessments among their hiring assessments cycle?
Dr. Alaa Awad: Psychology helps understand, anticipate and influence human behavior, and this is the very essence of the role of any manager. The lack of psychological awareness will increase the cost of trial and error, and the opportunity cost of missing the right candidate should be big. It is documented that the intentional bad selection of the Ex-Soviet leader Gorbachev had induced the breakdown of the former Soviet Union; he was so influential and too idealistic, and hence lacking the political realism and rationality that are required for a superpower leader position in the special context of the cold war; in other words his type of intelligence was diplomatic not strategic. So the cost of ignoring the psychological requirements of the job will be bigger if the job has a big impact on the organization.
I can’t imagine that we still try to deal with human beings without psychological vision; in the States they profile Facebook users in order to predict their voting behavior, and in Singapore there are preschools for multiple intelligence, etc. Unfortunately we are far behind.
HR Revolution Middle East: As an expert in this field, what piece of advice would you give to HR professionals in organizations established years ago without consideration of “jobs’ psychological engineering” and have to deal with the results of that from an HR perspective?
Dr. Alaa Awad: I would like to start with a real example from another manufacturing plant. We have two engineers of the same background and experience, the first one is the Production Planning Manager, and the second one is the Production Manager. The latter is a very organized person with low tolerance for ambiguity, while the first one is a flexible person with a high tolerance for ambiguity. The production environment in this specific case involved a lot of emergent conditions and many exceptions made for special clients. The Production Manager was frustrated because of the planning delay and the many changes made to the production plan afterwards. The solution was so simple, a swap between the two engineers, the flexible one would be in charge of the production management, and the organized one would be in charge of the production planning, hence exceptions would become minimal, planning would be done on time, and at the same time the implementation would be flexible enough to tolerate the unpredictable conditions afterwards. It is not about conflict management, it is not about training, it is not about firing and hiring, it is as simple as a swap that could be done immediately.
So HR Managers have to profile people, review the job-personality matching of all key positions, and apply a smart job rotation in order to improve efficiency. When a person is in charge of tasks that don’t match his/her personality, he/she needs more effort to get the job done; job-personality mismatching decreases efficiency, and staffing review on a job psychological engineering basis would improve efficiency. Sometimes we need a complementary micro redesign of the organizational structure in order to optimize the job-personality matching. When I mention “job” I mean both job content and job context.
HR Revolution Middle East: From your valuable point of view what are the benefits of applying the concept of “Job Psychological Engineering” in newly established organizations, whereas hiring decisions are based from the very beginning on an accurate personality assessment for the candidates in relation to the typology of the job they shall do?
Dr. Alaa Awad: This is really the perfect phase to apply Job Psychological Engineering. Once the results of the feasibility study of the entrepreneurial project are revealed as positive, the Organization Design should be done and the Job Psychological Engineering should follow accordingly. This will simply save the cost of change management, as everything may be done the right way since day one. The Business Development Agenda, Organization Design, Job Psychological Engineering, and HR Planning should be aligned and the best moment to do it properly is in the startup phase; it’s all about Design Thinking.
HR Revolution Middle East: If it might be costly to some organizations; is it correct in this case to limit using this approach to senior positions only? Is it wrong not to use personality assessments for junior or blue collar positions?
Dr. Alaa Awad: Job Psychological Engineering ought to be applied to every position in the organization in order to reach the best possible harmony with the maximal efficiency. Blue collars psychology is more important than we may imagine, but their routine tasks are easier to analyze. For instance in the manufacturing sector, if you want to build a culture of quality, the right character of blue collars will make a difference. Regarding junior positions, it is necessary to assess the personality of the candidates in order to evaluate their potential and identify talents despite their little previous experience.
HR Revolution Middle East: Throughout your experience Dr. Alaa, was it common to meet with CEOs who are aware about the crucial importance of “Psychometric Assessments” & want to apply them not only in hiring but also in other business dealings? How can this influence the future of a business & professional partnerships?
Dr. Alaa Awad: Yes, it was one of my best clients who invited me more than once to meet a potential business partner in order to assess the pattern of interaction between them, i.e. the psychological feasibility of the business partnership. This ought to occur in a casual setting where the client as a common friend invites the potential partner and me to dinner, for instance, without revealing my professional background.
I was also asked to assess the personality of the purchasing manager of the client of my client in a B-to-B setting. Such assignment needs a special arrangement.
Without reducing the factors affecting the business relations to the mere psychological dimension of things, the knowledge of the psychological context of the business if well identified and described would help manage the other factors effectively and efficiently.
HR Revolution Middle East: Apart from the application of this science in HR practices; as a career coach & counselor, how is it necessary for each person to have an accurate understanding for his/her personality type? And how this can benefit him/her to succeed more in life?
Dr. Alaa Awad: Self-knowledge is a must for experiential learning, i.e. learning from life experience, we would not be able to learn if we didn’t identify our own biases and understand their impact on the different situations that we face in life. And if we learn we will be able to improve our pattern of interaction with our environment. It is also necessary to know one’s points of strength in order to gain self-confidence. Finally success is a matter of choice, choosing the right domain, the right way, the right person, etc… and choice is a matter of matching between your nature and the nature of the field or persons that you will be dealing with. So Learning, Change, Matching, Confidence, and Success are all about Self-Knowledge.
HR Revolution Middle East: To what extent do you believe that a low “self-awareness” might cause people to pursue wrong career decisions and thus fail to realize their personal & professional fulfillment?
Dr. Alaa Awad: This is unfortunately one of the most common professional failure factor, career mismatching! It starts from the bad choice of the field of study due to a lack of self-knowledge. For example, the mentality of an architect should differ from the mentality of a civil engineer; it’s the opposition between abstract thinking and concrete thinking respectively, likewise the mentality of a creative designer should differ from the mentality of an accountant, etc. The magic click (fit) between the natural aptitudes of the candidate and the cognitive and behavioral requirements of the career is the secret of career fulfillment.
HR Revolution Middle East: Finally what valuable piece of advice would you give to HR professionals, responsible to manage recruitment plans throughout a region and sometimes have to distantly assess candidates from different countries and with different nationalities; could written psychometric assessments be enough in this case?
Dr. Alaa Awad: Written psychometric assessments or questionnaires have limited reliability and are good for group assessment only; individual assessment needs a face-to-face setting and this may be done through video conference. I use Skype sometimes, and for very important candidates we arrange a short trip paid by the eventual employer.
I also advise the beginner personality assessor to use the questionnaire but not to consult the results but after the interview, so he/she may compare the interview findings with the results of the written assessment taken into consideration the limited reliability of the questionnaire versus his/her points of indecisiveness regarding the profiling of the candidate.
Interview with Mr. Vijay Gandhi, Regional Director of Korn Ferry Digital
“2021 is here and there has been never a tipping point like this before for governments and organizations to transform how they work, engage the employees and service their clients. It is this mix of internal and external challenges that will also create opportunities for leaders to make a difference as we embark upon a new calendar year.” Mr. Vijay Gandhi
Interviewer: Mariham Magdy
Brief Biography about the Interviewee:
Mr. Vijay Gandhi has worked with human resource teams for over 20 years to provide them with tools, benchmarks, insights and data to help them design high level global HR frameworks and make decisions for local executive teams, remuneration committees and board of directors in public and privately owned companies across different sectors. He oversees the commercial activities of Reward & Benefits in KF Digital across Europe, Middle East and Africa.
Vijay has an MBA from Durham University (UK) and BBA in Finance & International Business from University of Wisconsin-Madison (USA). He joined Korn Ferry in 2001 in Dubai and has worked in EMEA and Asia region. In May 2018, he was honored with Forbes “Top 50 Indian Executives in Arab World”
1.HR Revolution Middle East: Mr. Vijay, welcome to HR Revolution Middle East Magazine. It’s a great pleasure to have the opportunity to make this interview with you.
As the Regional Director for Korn Ferry Digital, we are keen to learn from you more about KF Digital, how do Korn Ferry’s digital applications help organizations to transform or enhance their organizational strategy?
Through the Korn Ferry Digital platform, our clients gain direct access to our data, insights, analytics and digital solutions – enabling them to drive performance in their organizations in a scalable way through their people, using one enterprise-wide framework and language of talent. Our digital solutions cover the whole talent journey. So, whether it’s developing a new talent strategy or reward program, making informed decisions about hiring or developing talent from within the organization, getting the right people on board, or even collecting feedback on how engaged employees really are, right across the organization – Korn Ferry Digital provides the answers.
Our solutions serve as an integrated platform that gives clients direct access to the data, insights and analytics. Clients benefit from one enterprise-wide talent framework and language that helps drive organizational performance through people.
2- HR Revolution Middle East: To what extent can we trust the results of the digital assessments? How can organizations use the data that Korn Ferry collects to make intelligent hiring, reward, development decisions?
Mr. Vijay Gandhi:
Korn Ferry Digital is fueled by the most comprehensive and up-to-date people and organization databases. This data provides the DNA for our digital solutions, bringing a research-based foundation to underpin quality and consistency in your HR practices. Over 4 billion data points have been collected, including:
- Over 69 million assessment results
- 8 million employee engagement survey responses
- Rewards data for 20 million employees across 25,000 organizations and 130+ countries
We’ve pulled the data together into a comprehensive set of actionable and dynamic Success Profiles. Success Profiles define “what good looks like” and include data around three dimensions – the accountabilities of a role, the associated capabilities to perform these responsibilities, and the traits and drivers that are characteristic of a person who will thrive in this role.
Organizations have access to over 4,000 individual Success Profiles across 30,000 job titles – and we are continually updating and adding new profiles, so you get to leverage the latest thinking on emerging roles. The results are therefore based on deep insight and research.
3- HR Revolution Middle East: Mr. Vijay, we are eager to learn from you more about the success story behind honoring you as one of the Top 50 Indian Leaders in Arab World by Forbes Middle East in 2018 – Region’s greatest success stories as Regional Director at Korn Ferry Digital.
Mr. Vijay Gandhi:
I am a long-time resident of the Arab region, where my family roots go back 60 years, before the UAE federation was formed. Knowing the culture, people and dynamics of working in the Arab world has been natural as this has been home to our family where my kids are the 5th generation. For more than 20 years, I have worked closely with human resource teams in the Arab world to execute their talent strategy. A lot has changed in this period in HR function itself which was regarded as a payroll function few decades ago. Today, HR and People strategy are board room discussions where HR plays a strategic role in driving workforce performance.
In these positively growing and changing times, my focus was on leveraging tools, benchmarks, insights and data to design high-level global HR frameworks for senior executives in the region – helping them more effectively manage their talent. We have built successful client partnerships in the region which has made Korn Ferry as a go to organizational consulting firm.
4- HR Revolution Middle East: For over 20 years, you have overseen the activities of pay, talent, surveys and listening products across Europe, Middle East and Africa. What are the unique characteristics of the Middle East organizations especially in talent and pay management? How does we differ from other regions as Europe & Africa?
Mr. Vijay Gandhi:
Change is taking place rapidly in the world of work with any organizations taking unprecedented steps to remain relevant and connected to their people , their customers and society. In the Middle East we have seen many companies implement temporary pay-cuts. Diversified conglomerates have shifted their employees from one division to another to balance the demand and supply. There is no denial that the way we work is changing and organizations have had to prepare a blueprint for the unexpected. This year it’s coronavirus. Next time, and there will be a next time, it could be a natural calamity, a recession, talent flight or something else unforeseen.
- Redefining the nature of work: Even today most organizations in the Gulf region are measuring success or performance using the metric of attendance. There is a mismatch between modern, flexible ways of working and traditional ways of organizing and rewarding work. To close this gap, organizations need new approaches that fit today and can flex for the future. New and evolving technologies allow organizations to operate more effectively and more efficiently. They do this by preparing people to work more productively and by introducing virtual ways of doing things that previously required physical presence. Some organizations in the region have started tocreate “flexible teams” for specific projects, and then dismantling them once the project is complete.
- Moving towards a liquid workforce: HR laws in the Middle East region have undergone change in the last 3 years to allow for part-time employees, internships and with the spring of an independent freelance community offering specialized professional services which were rare to find few years ago. In the future, we will see more organizations tailoring their resource requirements to the needs of the labor market. Organizations will move towards a liquid workforce to capture the best talent regardless of source or nature of contract which may not be employed full-time.
- Splitting time and skills: A few global companies are making use of employees’ skills and motivation within the confines of a traditional role. They have developed a SharePoint platform where employees can give up to 20% of their time to projects outside of their core role. The 80/20 approach allows for flexibility without the contractual implications of making significant changes to roles and functions. The projects range from large, like supporting big corporate initiatives, to small, like moderating a series of workshops. These smaller projects may last just a few weeks and take up less than 20% of a person’s working time. Trainees, called ‘Start-up’ participants, also work according to the 80/20 principle. That means they follow a set rotation programme for four days of the week and meet on Fridays to work on joint projects.
- Rethinking Reward: Even after right-sizing in many Middle East companies, there has been a significant impact of grade/title inflation on performance. In the short-term it is important to preserve operating capacity in the event demand returns to normal sooner than expected by managing leaves and cutting pay for a limited time. In the medium-term, organizations will have to adjust individual performance incentives as conditions normalize and consider crisis-related spot awards where applicable. In the long-term, organizations will have to not only maintain awards for top-performers but also consider tying bonuses and incentives to crisis-related health and-safety metrics.
With no ‘rules of the game’, and such rapid evolution, it’s not surprising that many companies feel they don’t know where or how to start. They need fresh thinking and new approaches on a whole range of topics – including how to create a ‘new deal’ that works for their people.
5- HR Revolution Middle East: The digital transformation has changed totally the way businesses make decisions. Given that almost every organization has been forced into a new way of working, how can they navigate through a new normal?
Mr. Vijay Gandhi:
The positive new is that, apart from solving immediate effects of the crisis, we have seen a resilience to operate from home by employees and employers moving from “no flexible hours” to “you can work remotely if the job doesn’t require you to come to the office”.
Whilst it’s great to move to more flexibility, we may be going over the top to think that this will be the norm for all employee segments. Let me share some of the discussions with HR professionals in last few months in the region.
- Leadership matters and they want to be visible with the workforce. Ask any leader when do they have the most impact? It’s when they are spending time with their people to engage with them and enable them by listening to their concerns.
- There were aspects of our lives – work, family, friends – which were separate but now happening all in one physical space. The self-complexity theory shows that individuals become vulnerable to negative feelings when these social activities and goals aren’t differentiated.
- Certain roles in healthcare, manufacturing, hospitality sectors cannot work remotely, and fantastic efforts have been made to make the workplace safe.
- Sales and Business development were areas identified as most dependent on face-to-face meetings. According to Harvard Business research, in-person meetings were seen as most effective for:
- Negotiating important contracts (82%)
- Interviewing senior staff for key positions (81%)
- Understanding and listening to important customers (69%)
Although there are many reasons why video conferencing works well to stay connected in isolation and keep dispersed teams connected and aligned, latest research shows they wear on the psyche in complicated ways. Psychologists say a new phenomenon “video call fatigue” is emerging. It describes the feeling of being worn out by back-to-back virtual meetings and having to perform for the camera by over-scheduling ourselves.
So, whilst working from home since March 2020 was considered as a great move from being non-flexible to trusting people, it’s now time to rationalize our thinking. The answer lies somewhere in the middle by being flexible and not drifting like nomads too. We cannot take all home and it won’t be forever.
6- HR Revolution Middle East: How did all the twists and turns occurred in 2020 changed the traditional way organizations used to manage pay? Do you expect that businesses would return to the normal management of pay in 2021?
Mr. Vijay Gandhi:
Shifting to “people” priorities in 2021
2020 will be a fable for us to share with generations to come. It is a year which has revolutionized the way we work and adapt to uncertainty. A year which started with negativity around jobs and pay cuts. Life came to a stand-still. Organizations who have survived the pandemic have shown tremendous resilience and agility to adapt to tough times. As costs were taken out of the business in the first half of the year, we have seen higher productivity and the drive to restore profitability. It was also a year where there remained no doubt that that the most critical driver for any organization was its workforce.
2021 is here and there has been never a tipping point like this before for governments and organizations to transform how they work, engage the employees and service their clients. It is this mix of internal and external challenges that will also create opportunities for leaders to make a difference as we embark upon a new calendar year.
Transformation in business set-up and labour reforms were on top of the agenda in 2020. The Labour Reform Initiative (LRI) brought into action by MHRSD in Saudi under the National Transformation Program (NTP) has swung the focus back onto shared services and their significance in the Saudi business world. This initiative has not only set a strong precedent for the future of workers in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA) but also carved a structured model for businesses looking to hire personnel. Similarly, there were 2 landmark moves in United Arab Emirates (UAE)
- allowing foreign investors to own local companies without the need for an Emirati sponsor will open doors for more FDI and greater business opportunities.
- allowing professionals to reside and work in Dubai residency rule was a big boon for professionals in workplaces where they are delivering or leading teams remotely.
The road ahead for employees working in this region looks bright as these reforms would strengthen labour competencies, enrich the work environment, and put together an inviting job market. The flexibility will help employers in 2021 to drive innovations, provide access to more talent, drive performance and results regardless of where the team is located in the region.
Leaders will have to go beyond showing interest in the development of everyone and be empathetic towards employees who survived the crisis with them in 2020. In fact, the ‘Global Workplace Study 2020’ by ADP Research Institute shows that employees are approximately 13 times more likely to be resilient when more workplace disruption occurs. Empathy was shown by employees in many ways e.g. working from home in different circumstances or taking a pay cut to help companies save further job cuts.
Technology innovation is here to stay
Organizations in both the public and private sectors had to make a change in the way they work and move to digitization. Another conundrum we are presently facing is the real-estate impacts of employees desiring greater work-life flexibility. It’s unlikely that office spaces will disappear overnight, but rather a greater integration of virtual and in-person work is right around the corner. The recent decision by Dubai Government to work-from-home comes at the back of flexible working hours announced in April 2020. Workplace flexibility works best when implemented to address both the organization’s need to for a leaner workforce and employees’ need for work/life support.
The social element of your workplace has likely taken on a much different look in 2021. You may have employees in a social distance-friendly environment, employees working from home, or a mix of both. Organizations will have to find ways to encourage them to stay connected while being physically disconnected. Even before the pandemic COVID-19 had entered our vocabulary, burnout, stress and anxiety were significant issues in the workplace, and society generally. Once we throw the mental health impact into the mix, and work-related stress is likely to reach staggering levels. Going into 2021, leaders must promote the mental wellbeing and invest into benefits which will bring people together in a different way.
7- HR Revolution Middle East: What final tips would you give to business leaders at the beginning of 2021 with all the apprehensions and fears they have for the new wave of covid-19?
Mr. Vijay Gandhi:
Technology will continue to dominate the workplace and improve efficiencies. However, the most valuable services in the marketplace will always be done better by humans. In an era defined by crisis, where emotional intelligence, compassion, resilience, and morality may prove more important than ever before, the future of work is human. If business is about humans, the future of work must be too.
One thing to look forward to in 2021 from job and career perspective is slow change. Disruption has already happened. However, more often and less discussed are the small changes occurring each day that eventually add up to huge impacts. The present moment is worthy of your attention.
Q&A with Yasmine Yehia | MEA Employer Branding Manager at Schneider Electric, Life Coach & Consultant
Interviewer: Mahmoud Mansi
“To be able to have a strong brand, you need to start from within – you need to have an attractive story to tell so if this is not there, it won’t be the right time for employer branding. I always tell the people I teach employer branding – fix internally first and then you will have something to say externally.”Yasmine yehia
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: How would you introduce yourself to the audience?
Yasmine Yehia: I am an Employer Branding expert, a certified life and career coach from the ICF, a public speaker and a certified trainer!
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: How do you define Employer Branding in your own words?
Yasmine Yehia: Employer Branding is the art of story-telling, each employer has a story to tell, and this story is very useful for those who are interested in the company. A story about values, a story about culture, a story about care – a story about authenticity and uniqueness.
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: What does an Employer Branding Manager do?
Yasmine Yehia: An Employer Branding Manager is someone who is an expert in storytelling, someone who is also an expert in the employer strategy and people vision and who is talented in showing what differs the employer from any others in the market.
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: Employer Branding is one of the new global trends in HR, yet still not implemented in several countries and among many organizations. Why do you think some organizations have concerns regarding implementing Employer Branding as a comprehensive initiative?
Yasmine Yehia: I don’t think it is a matter of a concern at all – I think it is a matter of time and maturity. To be able to have a strong brand, you need to start from within – you need to have an attractive story to tell so if this is not there, it won’t be the right time for employer branding. I always tell the people I teach employer branding – fix internally first and then you will have something to say externally.
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: How do you measure the ROI of your Employer Branding initiatives?
Yasmine Yehia: Oh God, there are zillions of ways to measure the ROI of our initiatives and campaigns, as sophisticated as a brand awareness analysis to as simple as the quality of CVs we’re receiving for open vacancies. Measuring the pride and engagement of employees, measuring engagements and reach on our employer branding social media posts.
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: Who are your main stakeholders and partners in the Employer Branding process?
Yasmine Yehia: And like I teach in my workshop – Employer Branding is never an independent function, actually we cannot even function or deliver alone, it is a collaborative work between us, HR and Marcom.
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: Can you share with us one of the challenges you have faced in your current job and how you overcame it?
Yasmine Yehia: Managing a complex region like MEA is quite tough and I think the deep knowledge of each country in the region was my main challenge – what is it that my target audience in each country look for in an employer? I overcame it with loads of study and education and also with using the help of specialized agencies to provide me with the needed reports.
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: What pieces of advice would you give to organizations who want to empower their employer brand?
Yasmine Yehia: Be authentic! Start from within and have an authentic story to tell. You will reach the hearts of your target audiences effortlessly.
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: Jessie (if we may call you with your nickname), we are curious what is the first job you ever had and what is the most valuable lesson you have learnt from it?
Yasmine Yehia: My very first job was an IT Recruiter for fortune 1000 companies in USA – I learned the art of assessing and dealing with people, if there is one thing recruitment has given me, it is the strong people skills!
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: You are also a certified Life Coach, how does this help you in your role in HR?
Yasmine Yehia: In both HR and Employer Branding your main customer and target audience is people, right? A life coach listens to so many people, to their issues and struggles, it makes you a people person by heart – it gives you the perfect listening skills and it strengthens the way you interact and communicate with people, and this is exactly what you need as an HRian!
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: As a Life Coach, what advices do you have to professionals who want to sustain a work-life balance? Do we all need to have a work-life balance?
Yasmine Yehia: YES, we all need a work life balance definitely – you need time for yourself, to recharge, reflect and develop. I’d tell them, make the time for yourself a priority – do not miss it, this time is actually good for your work too because you will always have the right energy to continue. If there is a learning lesson from 2020, it is the importance of our mental health. Have a routine and this routine must include time for yourself!
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: As a Career Coach, how do you think Covid-19 impacted the employment market?
Yasmine Yehia: Well, from what I see from my clients – so many people are thinking to shift careers post covid-19. Some of them must because they lost their jobs and some of them realized the importance of mental health, so they decided to leave a very stressful career. I think moving forward companies will have to learn to be flexible in their hiring process and start accepting candidates having the right skills for a job rather than a big number of years of experience! It is hiring for talents not years! People also need to be more resilient and smart in using their skills.
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: Finally, as a Trainer – why do you think personal branding is very important? We know you teach the topic.
Yasmine Yehia: In a world that has gone totally virtual – people need to learn how to build a strong personal brand online, it is how you will smartly use your skills and get paid for it! You no longer have the big chance to meet your recruiters face to face, following the new ways of working, we are heading towards working from home and flexible hours more, your personal brand is the only thing that will differentiate you in the market and open doors for you.
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: Thank you for your time, would you like to say anything?
Yasmine Yehia: Thank you for having me – I hope I continue inspiring those interested in the employer branding career!
Q&A with Sherihan Elkamash; Researcher at the Center of Strategic Studies, Bibliotheca Alexandrina & Charity Activist
Interviewer: Mahmoud Mansi
“I am always trying to not lead members, but inspire them and gain their trust by encouraging my team to work on new projects. I help them make their work plan, and I provide them with some guidance and coaching to finally have a successful deliverable to help impact more people in the community.”Sherihan Elkamash
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: Sherihan you are multi-talented and active in building the community in several different ways, one of your main roles is working at the Center of Strategic Studies at the Bibliotheca Alexandrina, can you tell us more about your role?
My main work is about making strategic researches. I also, write articles about the recent international political events. One of the main roles for me is to organize virtual discussions to discuss different economic and political subjects. I am always in contact with high profile degenerates in the political arena to make interviews with them to be published. I am also the social media specialist for the center, responsible for managing the official page by managing and posting the news, declare about the new events and conferences for the center.
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: Across your career you have worked in different careers and gained different experiences. Can you tell us what did you learn from these experiences? And how those skills are helping you at your current role?
I have been working in many fields since a young age I have acquired professional experience in many fields for the past fourteen years; working in NGOs, media, research, translation and communications. These experiences taught me to navigate in different kinds of structures (public/private/international), as well as dealing with the internal dynamics of each organization. In my previous roles, I have demonstrated exceptional ability to manage external stakeholders including senior government officials, high-profile clients, and well-regarded organizations. As a trilingual officer, I can communicate effectively in Arabic, English and French.
Working in all those fields taught me how to work in full power with a great performance, deliver my work in a high quality and always being in time and following the timetable.
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: You also have your own charity project “El Rahmoun”. Can you tells us more about managing people in a charity structured projects?
Let me first talk about myself when I was a regular member in NGO’s and volunteer projects. I starting volunteering since I was a 13-year-old school student. During those 21 years in charity, I’ve learned many things:
-I learned how to take the initiative to start new projects to help the maximum number of people in need.
-I learned more about contributing to the community and helping solve issues.
-I learned how to deal with all categories in my society, understanding their needs and being helpful to them.
-It is not only about leadership, but I have also been a great “team member”, by coming up with new ideas, working with enthusiasm and integrity.
As a founder or a leader for “El Rahmoun” charity group – like any business structure or project – it depends on the number of volunteers whether they are many or few, based on that we put a strong administration and operations management plan.
I am always trying to not lead “El Rahmoun” members, but inspire them and gain their trust by encouraging my team to work on new projects. I help them make their work plan, and I provide them with some guidance and coaching to finally have a successful deliverable to help impact more people in the community.
There is an interesting difference between a traditional corporate structure and a charity structure. In charity the individual is the one who deicides his/her responsibilities and commitment to the charity work. I cannot obligate them to attend the events or to do their tasks. Which means that I have to be their friend so they love me and maintain a good communication with the youth, meanwhile at the same time I have to be their leader when it comes to the big decisions. And this is the most difficult part. I think after 3 years of continuous work, while our volunteering community is getting bigger… my team and I are doing it well.
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: How do you define success your own way? And what would be your success tips for youth?
I have learned the perfect strategy to achieve success, it is balance. We all have the desire towards success but those who are working and planning for it are the ones who are reaching their goals in a steady way. We all grew up with big dreams, seeking success in life, but few of us who understood that sustaining the success is the hard part. Balance is the key, youth need to know the importance of balance in their life between their studies, hard work, community service and social life. Youth need to make balance between physical, emotional and spiritual elements, to keep the high performance in everything they do. When we maintain our balance it shortly affects our sense of security and helps us to move forward. The balance in all activities in our days helps us maintain our mental health in order to have healthy minds and lifestyles. Stress is a serious threat to Youth and one should make it a priority to keep the stress away because stress prevents success.
Balance = Success
HR Revolution Middle East Magazine: With the development of technology, virtual communication and accessibility to knowledge, do you believe that some jobs are in threat? Can some careers take another form, offer different services and still impact the community?
The whole world is turning digital. The easy access to knowledge and data is the way of living now. Well, the development of technology can never be a threat. It actually helps us and is not a threat to our existence nor to anything created or made by the human being. NEW careers have been created and much more are on their way to glow and have place due to the virtual life. Furthermore, thousands of activities and services are provided through the internet now (website- social media) which also supports entrepreneurs and organizations to easily create new projects.
The Egyptian Government is taking the same track now in most of its governmental institutions. The pandemic helped a lot. It was a red light to hurry and accelerate our path, not only organizations that are turning digital but also individuals are becoming more focused on e-learning and other daily life services and in their lifestyles. I am very optimistic; because of the development of technology, new jobs are opening and great opportunities for youth which is very advantageous, beneficious and profitable to the growth of our great Nation EGYPT and to the rest of the world.
Thank you Sherihan for this interview and for developing and inspiring the community in such a unique way!
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