“For me, I am happy as long as I can see that the work we do has an impact on individuals and organizations and especially on society and advances development in the Middle-East” George Karam

Interviewer: Mariham Magdy

Brief Biography about the Interviewee:

George Karam is Managing Partner – Advisory Middle East and Africa for Korn Ferry, based in Dubai. Mr. Karam’s career of 31 years is split between management consulting, primarily with Hay Group / Korn Ferry in the USA and the Middle East and in several leadership roles at the World Bank in Washington, DC including global head of compensation, benefits, insurance and pension. He has worked in over 35 countries and across many sectors advising over 100 clients on strategy implementation, organization effectiveness, compensation, and human capital management

He is passionate about human, organization, and society development. Mr. Karam is an expert in building effective organizations and human capital management systems. His strength is in client engagement and integrated solution design and implementation.

Mr. Karam holds a Master’s of Business Administration in Management from Lincoln U. in San Francisco, CA and a Bachelor’s of Art in Business Administration from the American University of Beirut. He also completed the Executive Education Program at the Harvard Business School. He is also a Certified Compensation Professional (CCP) and works interchangeably in English, French and Arabic.

He is a member of the Advisory Council of the Human Resources Management Program at Olayan School of Business at the American University of Beirut.

1- HR Revolution Middle East: Can you take me to through your career journey and your current role at Korn Ferry?

George Karam:

Firstly, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak to you and your esteemed online magazine.

It is a pleasure to be speaking to a magazine published in Egypt where a lot of knowledge about human development came from and where a lot of transformation has been happening

About me, as a child I did not necessarily grow up thinking that I wanted to be a management consultant, I wanted to be a car designer. Not only because I like cars but because I thought it’s where one can mix science and art: the car has a lot of science, data, components, a lot of processes to be built (science) but it can also be aesthetically pretty and artistic.  There’s a mix of science and art that creates movement, progress… and consulting is something like that!  

I finished my MBA in Management in 1988 and I was hired into management consulting.  I believed that it can be interesting because of the direct exposure to different clients and their business challenges that I will be resolving. Also, in different parts of the world.

I started with a strategy firm that did a lot of work processes re-engineering based on Statistical Process Control and Total Quality Management and that taught me a lot about how organizations function and the difference between high performing ones and the not so high performing ones. This signaled to me the notion that ‘yes you can put a lot of emphasis on the science of the organization, but the highest performing ones have its people at the center of their success’.  Their people are aligned to their strategies, trained, motivated, etc.  I then moved to Hay Group, also in the USA where I honed my skills on the ‘people’ side of organizational effectiveness. I started out as a compensation consultant.  Hay Group at the time was predominantly a Compensation consulting firm. I learnt not only the science of Compensation Management but more importantly how compensation can be one of the key motivators for high performing people and as a result, organizations.

My work was a perfect mix of art and science and it allowed me to work in many countries, across many sectors, and on several variations of client issues.   

I became increasingly interested in the concept of progress; going back to the car example; I wanted science, I wanted art, but I also wanted to see movement and progress.

Through one of my projects I was introduced to the World Bank in Washington, DC where I was living at that point in time.  I learnt a lot about development and the mission of the Bank.  Having grown up in a small and not so well-developed country, it appealed to me that I could work for the number one global development organization.  I took the offer.  At first, I worked on organizational decentralization and on Compensation and Benefits issues in the Middle East & Africa and I believe that my work had a profound impact on people and the organization.

At the World Bank, I played several roles, mostly in compensation, benefits, insurance, pension, but I also became involved with policy reform and a lot of work that focused on policies related to social development and people.

Then I went back to Hay Group for 2 years to lead the launch of the organization design practice. This was an arranged career deviation which allowed me to maintain my commercial instincts and to move to the Middle East as an adult.  This was another eye-opener on how much development work is needed in the Middle East.  The launch of the practice was very successful and now it holds the largest share of Korn Ferry’s Middle East business.

Two years later I was back in Washington, DC at the World Bank for another 4 years to lead an HR reform agenda. After that, I came back to Hay Group with the mandate to boost the business of the Middle East.  

We implemented a strategy that really paid off and have more than doubled the business in five years. We have taken the Hay Group business to a totally different level with the type and size of work we do.  Hay Group was acquired by Korn Ferry almost 4 years ago and this was a marriage made in heaven.    It could not have been a better match because now we can cover the whole spectrum of organization consulting. 

2- HR Revolution Middle East: Korn Ferry is known as the largest human capital consultancy in the Middle East and North Africa – can you tell me how this represents a special responsibility on your burden to be the leader of such great firm?

George Karam:

It’s certainly not a burden, it’s a responsibility. For me, I am happy as long as I can see that the work we do has an impact on individuals and organizations and especially on society and advances development in the Middle-East.

I have a primary responsibility to our clients; whether that client is a company, an individual or a country. That is my number one accountability.  I am also responsible for growing the business profitably and this feeds into two areas:  the responsibility towards shareholders, and towards our employees and their families. In the Middle East we have 200 employees. The better we do as a business, the better our employees and their families live.    I personally feel that I have the responsibility for making this happen.

3- HR Revolution Middle East:  As a firm that focuses on people and unleashing their strength, how do you recruit, retain and develop your people? What competencies are you looking for at Korn Ferry?

George Karam:

We recruit mostly by references. Those tend to be the most successful. Those with consulting experience tend to ‘hit the ground running’. 

We have permanent recruitment drives to keep a pipeline of candidates regionally and internationally.

New partners sometimes bring people with them. 

From a process perspective once we have candidates, we use our tools of course to assess them like the TalentQ suite for psychometrics, Behavioral Event Interviews to assess competencies, and case studies to assess business acumen and consulting skills. We need people that can connect the dots between business issues, business problems, and figure out how to resolve them using our IP and methodologies.

These assessments are not only for selection but also for feedback and for helping new hires succeed. Sometimes we hire people and we know they are low on certain elements like for example ‘decision making’ so we develop them to be better at it through training and coaching but more importantly in real situations.

We seek expertise: We always want compensation specialists, organization design specialists, leadership development specialists. We also like the people that have worked in more than one specialty area because solving client issues often requires a mix of solutions.

Most development takes place on-the-job in real client situations.  We expose our juniors to real business cases and invite them into client meetings even with top executives, so they get a full understanding and practical exposure in the discussion, the problem definition, the solutioning of issues, the communications, etc.  We also give our juniors exposure to the commercial side of our business: They participate in sales calls, proposal writing, pricing techniques, negotiations and closing.

We want people that are courageous, that can face clients, can hear a ‘no’ and stay strong; those that are happy and willing to deal with difficult issues, not necessarily on their own, we want them to be team players, curious learners… those will do well with us.

4- HR Revolution Middle East: Many companies around the world use the Korn Ferry Hay Job Evaluation Methodology (formerly known Hay Methodology), can you tell us a bit more about its application in today’s economic environment and in the future? How would you compare its use in the past vs the future?

George Karam:

I would be the first to admit that I spend a lot of time thinking about it. It’s a responsibility for any firm to think about what it offers in the market and make sure that it is relevant.

The Hay Group Methodology, formerly known as Hay Group Guide Charts Job Evaluation Methodology, goes back to the mid-1940s. It has accompanied many changes in the ways work is conducted, new jobs that have been created, new technologies that were introduced, and it is still in use.

It is the only methodology for work measurement that is acceptable in the US court of law, so it must be very solid. But like everything else in life, you should always revisit it, adapt it, even doubt it, because that is how you improve it and keep it relevant.

The methodology is based on three key factors which include eight elements. Any job, past, current, or future will require certain knowledge, will require to solve problems or create new things; and every job in any organization has a set of accountabilities. This is true in any work; white or blue collar, automated or creative that you can think of.

This does not change; it was even there when the Pharaohs built the pyramids way before Hay Group and is still applicable. 

The application of the Methodology will continue to change.

At first, the Methodology enabled us to measure work content, then to develop classification structures, then grading structures, then compensation structures, then job pricing. As it evolved more in its application, specialists started using the accountability factor to design variable pay plans and link accountabilities to developing KPIs, then develop performance management systems, etc.  Then specialists started using it for organization design, organization cascading; job design, and RACI matrices.  Specialists also use it when merging organizations (M&A) to compare between jobs and identify and eliminate any overlaps between jobs in a merger.

I believe that the Methodology in its process, factors and elements will prevail in the future. Newer and more applications may emerge.  The evolution will be a reaction to how job and people management change. Specialists will also explore new uses.

I think that the Methodology we will be more cutting edge in the way it will be used. I can imagine it connecting directly into global databases to draw much more than pay data; perhaps the user will be challenged by artificial intelligence to help get the evaluations right.

In the Middle East, most of the use of the Methodology has been somehow related to pay. It has been evolving rapidly into other uses.  It is now more connected to finding solutions to issues of organization design, mergers, acquisition, efficiencies, and streamlining.

5- HR Revolution Middle East: In your experience, what do you believe to be the biggest challenges facing companies today? How are you helping your clients be better prepared for the future?

George Karam:

I see that the biggest challenges facing our clients now is the rapid transformation caused by the digital disruption and the need for speed as far as innovation is concerned; the integration of more youth and women into the workforce and into leadership, people development generally; and having to be more efficient, effective, and impactful.

We have a talent crunch in the region.  That’s a serious issue. By 2030 Saudi Arabia alone will have a shortage of 660,000 people which has a serious economic effect on its output. Our research shows that the unrealized economic output will be as high as $207 Billion if this issue is not resolved.  The UAE will have a shortage of110,000 skilled professionals.    

6- HR Revolution Middle East: Finally, I would love to congratulate you that Korn Ferry was named a Top Leader in ALM Intelligence’s Talent and Leadership Consulting Vanguard Report, Ranking No. 1 in Depth Capability. How was Korn Ferry able to achieve such great achievement? What are the main success factors that really enabled Korn Ferry to be in such ranking and how can other organizations learn from such an inspiring success journey?

George Karam:

It goes back to the power of the Korn Ferry’s vision of bringing organization and people together.

Other firms focus on one thing and they are doing well. Mackenzie is a great strategy house, if you read the ALM Report, you see why they are ranked high on all things, but then what?  you can have a great strategy but if you cannot implement it at the organization and people levels, it remains only a good strategy. I believe that this is the edge Korn Ferry has today. It can implement strategy and make it successful.

The acquisition of several brands, such as the acquisition of Hay Group, and our latest acquisitions (Strategy Execution, Miller Heiman, Achieve Forum) which I’m sure you’ve read about recently will bring more into our methodologies, approaches, toolboxes and to resolve issues of organizations.

We have all our IP and people working together. We are not a house of brands under different leaderships and strategies.

Today when a compensation consultant goes to a client, she/he is not only going as a compensation consultant but is going as a consultant who will help resolve interrelated business issues. This may mean some compensation adjustments, some organization design, or the recruitment of a top person, or putting the right leadership in place, so you’re really creating an integrated solution and you are doing it in very close partnership

We brought Executive Search, Professional Search, Compensation and Benefits, Talent Management, Development, Organization Design all together serving clients in account teams with great knowledge of the sector too.

That’s why we were ranked number 1, we were ranked number one on depth of capability, but also ranked number two on Client Impact, so it is not theoretical, it is very practical, and I trust that the future is even brighter.

If I may, I would also like to draw your attention to the fact that we have been listed in the top 50 companies for the Working Mother 100 Best Companies for working parents. We’re very proud of this achievement and hope to continue giving our employees and clients the best possible care and service we can provide.

Thank You